The second day of public hearings for the Senate Committee’s Inquiry into the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024 [Provisions] was held today. The following is how it played out.
Panel 1:
Australian Technology Network of Universities (Submission 14) Dr Ant Bagshaw, Executive Director
Innovative Research Universities (Submission 17) Mr Paul Harris, Executive Director
Ant Bagshaw from the ATN and Paul Harris of the IRU gave a formidable performance. The overarching tone can be summed up by Paul Harris’s opening statement: “We support measures to improve quality and integrity across the international education system, but we do not support this Bill as drafted. For example, we do not support the Minister having legislated powers to control or cancel individual courses within universities.”
Bagshaw was tested on the ATN’s proposal of a 35 per cent cap, which was put into the media, and the criticism received by the Go8. His response was a good one. There is no objective answer to caps; however, 35 per cent appears to be a reasonable one for his membership.
Panel 2:
English Australia (Submission 49) Mr Ian Aird, Chief Executive Officer
International Education Association of Australia (Submission 27) Hon Mr Phil Honeywood, Chief Executive Officer
International Student Education Agents Association (Submission 41) Mr Robert Parsonson, Executive Officer Mr Akram Mardini, Treasurer
A strong performance and intelligent session from the three lobby groups – International Education Association of Australia (IEAA), English Australia (EA), and International Student Education Agents Association (ISEAA).
As one would expect Honeywood gave a succinct and on-point open statement pointing out the downturn in international students and asking why this legislation is required when numbers are dropping due to visa declines in the last period. Aird from EA was next, who gave a strong opening statement pointing out that this bill isn’t just about ministerial oversight but also about failings throughout. ISEAA took the opportunity to underscore the requirement of a contract between agents and providers – a direct response to the change in the definition of the agent that has been proposed in the bill, which was argued to be too broad by members of the panel.
Panel 3:
Holmes Institute (via teleconference) (Submission 37) Mr Stephen Nagle, Chief Executive Officer
Navitas (Submission 43) Mr Simon Finn, Head of Strategic Engagement and Government Relations
Pathways were the focus of this session. Nagle from Holmes and Finn from Navitas were astute in providing an overview of the situation and provided numerous examples to support their position. One example in relation to visa assessment was a student who was rejected from Dubai whose father is involved with the airport and has access to significant funds.
Nagle was asked about caps and how they may be implemented. Nagle spoke to already having a cap – a CRICOS cap – “we can’t enrol any more than we are registered to do so”. This is a point the Koala has pushed for some time. A great quote from this conversation was from Nagle was “treating students as a scapegoat to structural issues in the Australian economy”.
Finn spoke to Navitas’ experience in Canada, where caps have been implemented, and suggested their implementation was rushed and had the added complication of the provincial system. He suggested any capping that may occur needs a smooth well, well-thought-out approach and significant communication. Students seek “certainty and predictability and signals from government prior to making a huge lifelong decision.” He said.
Panel 4:
MyStay International Pty Ltd (Submission 28) Mr David Bycroft, Founder and Director Mr Chris Bycroft, Executive Manager
Scape Australia (Submission 39) Mrs Anouk Darling, Chief Executive Officer Mr Ben Byrne, General Manager, Investment Management
David Bycroft took the opportunity to outline that 15k students are currently supported in hosted accommodation by the Australian Homestay network.
Darling from Scape took the opportunity to outline the environment of new builds for PBSA’s stating it can be 6 years to complete a build. She also outlined the inconsistent tax regimes that exist.
Senator Faruqi asked Darling about costs at Scape. The response was a good one, setting the scene of a community, not a room. She quoted events run, security overlays, and other amenities that help students succeed in an educational context. As for rents, in Sydney, between $400 to $900 was the answer.
There was significant discussion about rental availability, with the Accenture report referring to 4 per cent of the rental market being utilised by international students. Bycroft spoke about the opportunity of opening up vacant rooms in households, which the last census (2022) suggested may be around 13 million across Australia. He suggested incentives may be required to unlock these, but they represent tremendous potential.
Panel 5:
Ms Tracy Harris (Submission 63)
Mr Andrew Norton (Submission 38)
Norton argues against caps. International students should be allowed to choose what they want to study. Most students return home and if there are too many Chinese or Indian business students then this is a problem for them, not for Australia, he says.
Henderson hones into the government data systems. Something Norton in his submission and in his responses suggest are not up to this bill. “I’m not sure that the two department systems communicate well enough with each other to support the proposed business model.
“We should have real-time data.” Norton said. Institutions need to know when a visa is rejected to ensure they can manage their caps. At this stage, that is not possible, he suggests.
Senator Henderson asked Norton about the alignment of programs to Australia’s skills needs. Norton points out again that students should be able to study what they want. It is similar to the job-ready program he suggests. Harris added astutely going back some 14 years ago around the incentivised programs of hairdressing and cookery. Providers increased, and graduates were produced; however, the skills shortages were not solved. “I see the potential of the same thing happening here”. She said.
There was a slight spat between Senators and Henderson who spoke to the notion of student experience from differing points of view.
Panel 6:
CQUniversity (Submission 12) Mr Shehan Thampapillai, Deputy Vice President, International
The University of Sydney (Submission 32) Professor Mark Scott AO, Vice-Chancellor and President
UNSW Sydney (Submission 42) Professor Attila Brungs, Vice-Chancellor and President Professor the Hon Verity Firth AM, Vice-President Societal Impact, Equity and Engagement
Western Sydney University Professor George Williams AO, Vice-Chancellor and President
Williams’s opening statement was Western Sydney-focused. He provided significant insight into the importance of international students filling skills gaps and contributing to the region. Smart.
This bill is “Remarkable in many respects” he says. He then went point by point and took it down, from the minister’s overriding power to drafting points. He ends with a mining analogy whereby suggesting that if the government were to tell miners how much they could export, tear up their contracts if they exceed it by a ton and only give them the limits at the end of each year when contracts are arranged in advance, it would be right to check.
This was the highlight of the day. He was impressive.
Brungs, Thampapillai and Scott outline their institution’s views and both called for MD 107 to be removed.
Henderson starts with questions by asking Williams about his pay. As a new Vice-Chancellor, his pay has been benchmarked in line with the Government secretary. Henderson clearly sets this up for later and asks if he thinks this should be the case for all institutions. Williams responds, “I think in my case it is clear and fair I couldn’t speak across the board.”
Turns to Professor Scott and asks him about international student numbers. Sydney is anticipating by census at the end of this week 41,000 international students, anticipating a 50 per cent mix.
Henderson claimed in the B Commerce, in some subjects that 75% are international. Scott states that 45 per cent are international. Henderson asks about gender breakdown. Scott responds 58 per cent female / 42 per cent male amongst the international cohort, almost reversed for the domestic cohort.
Before Henderson finishes up she asks Scott about salary. He played a straight bat.
Panel 7:
Australian Skills Quality Authority (Submission 9) Ms Saxon Rice, Chief Executive Officer Ms Fiona O’Brien, Executive Director, Policy and Engagement
Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency (Submission 58) Dr Mary Russell, Chief Executive Officer
Neither provided an opening statement.
Henderson started by asking ASQA’s Saxon Rice about the media release from Training Minister Giles, about a recent media release re 150 Ghost colleges being shut down. In her response it appears nomenclature is an issue. Rice attempts to explain these were non-operating for 12months, 18 of these were CRICOS registered.
Henderson drills deeper and suggests these are non-operating vs Ghost colleges operating as shonks, offering a back door to Australia. Rice took it on notice and will need to return to the committee
The rest of the session appeared to be rather sloppy with direct answers few and far between.
Panel 8:
Department of Education (Submission 51) Mr Ben Rimmer, Deputy Secretary, Higher Education, Research and International Ms Karen Sandercock, First Assistant Secretary, International Division Ms Vanessa Lapthorne, Assistant Secretary, Engagement Branch Ms Alexandra Procailo, Assistant Secretary, Quality Branch
Department of Employment and Workplace Relations (via teleconference) (Submission 47) Ms Laura Angus, First Assistant Secretary, Careers and International Skills Division Ms Katerina Lawler, Assistant Secretary, Industry Engagement and Quality Division Mr Daniel Langer, A/g Assistant Secretary, Careers and International Skills Division
Department of the Treasury Ms Sam Reinhardt, Deputy Secretary, Fiscal Group Dr Adam Cagliarini, First Assistant Secretary, Macroeconomic Conditions and Population Division Ms Kerren Crosthwaite, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Division Mr Brendan McKenna, A/g First Assistant Secretary, Labour Market, Environment, Infrastructure and Industry Division (via teleconference) Mr Nick Latimer, Assistant Secretary, Centre for Population
No opening statements were made.
Henderson starts with a data question. How many students are anticipated in 2025? The Department took it on notice. The Koala wonders how can caps be issued if the Department can’t answer that question?
The next question asked about regional providers. The response acknowledging Regional providers have had a hard time of it over the past 24 months due to a number of factors including ministerial direction 107.
Attention then moved to Treasury and asked about modelling in relation to caps.
Treasury, Dept of Ed, and Home Affairs have all contributed to modelling (or work) and determining how students would contribute to NOM. Not characterised as modelling and not able to provide that information as it was for cabinet purposes. Henderson believes this is not for cabinet purposes but rather to inform the Minister and should be presented. The question was taken on notice.
Pocock was next to ask questions, and the Department of Education spokesperson was holding the cards close to the chest. In essence, caps work has been done but may not be completed. The government (as in the pollies) will release caps when they see fit.
Treasury has supplied advice to the cabinet on economic impact. After the announcement of the cap, more work will be completed to insert it against the economic outlook.
Faruqi asked about the fallout from potential changes – she understood that there had been no modelling on economic, social, or human. Treasury’s response is that they have looked at the implications and considerations of government and fed this into the cabinet. In short, yes, they have modelled scenarios.
Faruqi goes on to ask about housing modelling and international students. Treasury’s response was that there are a range of factors that have caused the affordability issues. On the demand side, international students are one of those factors. There are also issues on the supply side.
Karen Sandercock spoke about how the system suspension would work, was a clear communicator and actually provided details in a step-by-step fashion. It makes a world of difference and shouldn’t be that difficult.
This session was a frustrating one, with questions not being answered and being danced around with several senators showing frustration; this was felt by the Koala, too.
The Koala ponders next steps: the committee’s report and how voting may go on the floor of the Senate.
