The fourth Senate Standing Committee on Education and Employment into the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024 [Provisions] has just been completed. Here’s a wrap of the day.
8.15 am
Imperial Engineering Education (via videoconference) (Submission 176)
Dr Mukesh Chander, Chief Executive Officer
Dr Chanda pointed out that Imperial was approved under CRICOS for 275 students in April. They were recently sent their indicative cap allocation 10 for 2025.
As it is a newly registered college, there are no current students enrolled; however, currently, 50 offers have been issued. The cap here seems at odds with the department’s statements that new providers are being allocated 30 places.
Senator O’Sullivan was first up asking questions. What is the impact of this cap was his question. Response $3.5m invested; strategic plan says ROI would be met in Year 4 or 5. The Koala makes the obvious understatement that this is highly unlikely now with a cap of 10.
Henderson picks up on this, honing in on the financial viability of the business, pointing out that TEQSA is now sending letters questioning financial viability under the act. Chanda responds that financial viability is “at stake at the moment.” “Will need to find additional resources to continue operating,” he continues.
Chanda’s appearance was a good case study of what is occurring with providers, albeit a new one, in the current situation.
9.00 am
Independent Tertiary Education Council Australia (Submission 60)
Mr Troy Williams, Chief Executive
Mr Felix Pirie, Deputy Chief Executive, Policy and Research
TAFE Directors Australia (via videoconference) (Submission 5)
Ms Jenny Dodd, Chief Executive Officer
Ms Claire Field (Submission 130)
Claire Field speaks to anomalies in the cap allocation, pointing out there has been no consistency and caps are “completely mixed” for all providers except TAFE allocations where there is a pattern.
She urges the committee to look at WSU’s additional submission, which can be downloaded here.
Field was then asked about her research. She responds:
- 11 providers with 1 additional being added with 1429 places who have been cancelled by ASQA and are appealing in the AAT to have the decision overturned
- 10 providers have been provided caps above their CRICOS registered, 1 doesn’t have VET program. Of the 9 remain 5 have longer courses, they will not be able to provide. The other 4 offer 4-8 week certificate level 2 and 3 level course
- 79 providers with a cap of 30 who have not provided for international students for more than 6 years, potentially.
- 192 providers have a cap of 10 or less that will face financial viability as per Dr Chanda.
Faruqi asks her standard question, “Should this be paused and go back to the drawing board?” Field responds, “It would be wrong to go ahead as is”, very eloquently delivered.
Senator Bilyk, a Labor senator asks about Peter Dutton’s (leader of the opposition) statements on reducing the student intake further and the impact this may have. The committee descends into arguments around committee questioning with the broadcasting cut.
When broadcasting returned, Troy Williams responded that hypotheticals or broad statements aren’t worked through in detail. There are a number of bills before the committee, so there just isn’t the bandwidth to investigate hypotheticals or broad statements in detail.
Henderson takes over questions and turns back to Field. She asks about her research again, focusing on providers under investigation being granted caps describing it as “gross incompetence.” Again Field answers smartly, stating it is certainly an oversight but can’t believe it was intentional.
This session, while somewhat tense between committee members at times, was a testament to the witnesses who clearly articulated and demonstrated the flaws of elements of the Bill and processes associated with its proposed implementation, thus far avoiding the petty politics that committee members displayed.
9.45 am
UnionsNSW (via videoconference)
Mr Thomas Costa, Assistant Secretary
Australian Education Union was originally part of the program initially released however was removed from the program on the day.
“It is incorrect to blame international students for the housing crisis”, says Costa in his opening statement.
Bilyk opens up questioning and again focuses on the exploitation of students. Costa paints a picture that the information provided to students doesn’t match the experience on arrival. This is predicated on the cost of living being more expensive than expected. This drives the requirements for work and moves students into an exploitative situation. Often, he says the type of work is not at the expected level either. Costa alludes to having a fixed amount of work hours is an issue contributing to exploitation.
Bilyk comes back and asks about sub-par accommodation. Costa responds with stories of finding accommodation, costs of accommodation, and in some cases the number of students living per dwelling.
Henderson goes next. Simple question “Do you believe this bill enhances integrity and quality”. Costa responds “yes”. Follow-up question by Henderson: “Do you think it is concerning that 12 providers were given caps that are currently facing ASQA sanctions?”. Costa says he isn’t aware of that and doesn’t have the details.
Chair of the committee Senator Sheldon leads Costa around sex trafficking and other issues found in reports. He asks if there are other examples. Costa speaks to a situation of a group of ladies found in a massage parlour in Canberra whose passports had been confiscated and not paid. He did say this is not common but is something they come across from time to time.
Faruqi next asks about the loss of jobs expected from this bill. Costa states that they do not support anything that goes to job losses. He expands that a conversation is needed about our migration program, particularly as it relates to low-skilled workers.
10.30 am Break
10.45 am
Academy of Interactive Entertainment (Submission 86)
Mr John De Mrgheriti, Chief Executive Officer
Bankstown Community College Institute (TBC)
Ms Monique Knight, Chief Executive Officer
Institute of Health & Management Pty Ltd (Submission 82)
Dr Kunnumpurath Bijo, Chief Executive Officer
Key 2 Learning College (Submission 129)
Mr Michael Bermejo, Director
Each witness gave an opening statement that outlined their operating profile and the impacts of the proposed caps on their institutions, emphasising their ongoing commitment to infrastructure and employment impacts. Hearing one after the other paints a bleak picture.
Henderson to Wright: You’ve outlined the impact of the cap and that you may be forced to close your doors. Wright’s response emphasises the role of a community college and the diverse student cohort and the impact on the Canterbury-Bankstown area. The college’s CRICOS registration is 348, their proposed cap is 15.
Henderson to Mrgheriti: a similar question. Mrgheriti responds by outlining his current situation and delivers perhaps the quote of the day: “Wake up, do not destroy our nation”.
Bilyk attempts to corner Mrgheriti regarding the low number of international students. Mrgheriti gives Bilyk a 101 lesson on how a start-up works in international education, she cuts him off. Clearly, Bilyk doesn’t understand the topic area. Mrgheriti clearly is across the brief and a high performer.
Bermejo makes a strong case for skilled list occupations being negatively affected if this bill passes. Where will the nurses come from? It’s a good point he makes and the impact has not yet been modelled.
Mrgheriti speaks of his investment in Canberra, an initial $40m with plans of a total $200m. He speaks of overseas government supporting his initiatives, but his “home country is against him”.
Mrgheriti was the star of this session.
11.30 am
BASAIR Australia (Submission 103)
Mr David Newton, Chief Executive Officer
Flight Training Adelaide (Submission 73)
Mr Johan Pienaar, Chief Executive Officer
IH Sydney Training Services Pty Ltd (Submission 96)
Mr Timothy Eckenfels, Chief Executive Officer
Mr Mark Raven, General Manager, Revenue
Lexis Education Pty Ltd (via videoconference) (Submission 90)
Mr Ian Pratt, Managing Director
Moorabbin Aviation Services (via videoconference) (Submission 97)
Dr Rob Jouning, Deputy Head of Operations
Each provider gave an overview of their operation and the impact the Bill will have if passed in its current form.
BASAIR – The proposed reduction (in students) threatens their future operations and also Australia’s global standing in the sector. Students contribute $150K in tuition 65wk-course. Under current CRICOS caps, the aviation training sector can accommodate over 2,800 student which will fall to 308 students under the proposed cap. Students have a “deep desire” to return home, they actually can’t get jobs with Qantas with only 200hrs of training anyway – will seek jobs at home with their national airlines. Wants the proposed caps to be more “nuanced” around distribution and ask for are consideration proposal.
Flight Training Adelaide – 9,000 students graduated to date. 300 students a year. Employ 400 staff – jobs are under threat if this Bill is passed in its current form. Revenue is $80M per annum (incl domestic). Proposed caps will take it from $40M (international student revenue) to $15.8M in 2025.
Cannot “survive” this type of arrangement. Will “decimate the industry if we go down this path.” We’ll “cease to exist”
IH Sydney (Tim Eckenfels) – Has made substantial investments: 9 campuses, 7 locations and 15,000 students. Half of investment is in regional areas. Expresses that “Secretive” implementation of MD107 is putting the company at risk with enrolments are dropping 10% month on month, Visa “rejections” have increased from 6% to 19% and over $12M of refunds paid out this year. Announced this week our first campus closure in history (regional NSW) with the potential of up to 35% of staff across all campuses at risk of losing jobs.
In ensuring quality, they refused 390 applications “ourselves” in addition to over 500 that DoHA refused. The group bought a higher ed provider for $7M last year. (PBL Education) and say they rejected over 70% of applications themselves to protect risk rating with Home Affairs “rejecting” another 50% again. Currently have 30 students – should have over 100. Proposed cap allocation is 25 for next year.
IH Sydney (Mark Raven) – Mark believes the caps have “already been applied” because of MD107. He reiterates the 390 in house refusals number and a further 510 refusals from DHA. ($9M cost)
Expects to close 50% of their campus network in the next 6 to 9 months and will result in damage to local communities. He believes the sector is caught between two pieces of legislation/regulation that are “at odds”. He says, “We can see the point scoring taking place”, and we try and stay away from that.
Seeking the committee’s help:
- Delay the legislation… it’s not ready. It will take time to move through the process.
- Need the government’s guarantee to keep businesses running (sorry, this one’s a bit vague.)
- Last of all, wants a review of the cost of a student visa for ELICOS.
Lexis (Ian Pratt) – founded Lexis 20 years ago with Yasako (wife) with now campuses around country, as well as Korea and Japan.
Ian focused on Noosa as an example for this hearing. Noosa has demographic challenges: retirement; aging population; and lack of available job training. Long-term labour shortages became huge during Covid and hugely affected the local hospitality industry.
Ian invested a large sum in building training kitchens, cafes and bars (CTA) as well as setting up to train the 200 staff required each year by local hospitality businesses – and it has been a success. CTA is expensive to run and marginally profitable. If the proposed cap is implemented, there is no business case to continue. The cap will force CTA to “wind back” their regional operation and force them to focus on courses in the capitals as it is cheaper and easier to deliver.
The bill being so poorly designed and implemented will hit the regions most of all. Closing the Culinary Academy won’t free up any accommodation in a housing shortage area but will cost Australia and that regional community in terms of businesses, jobs and training.
This bill is destructive, “not fit for purpose”. He asks the committee to please amend.
12.15 pm Lunch
1.15 pm
Department of Home Affairs (Submission 3)
Mr Damien Kilner, First Assistant Secretary, Immigration Programs Division
Mr Brendan Tegg, Assistant Secretary, Migration Reform Taskforce
Department of the Treasury
Ms Sam Reinhardt, Deputy Secretary, Fiscal Group
Dr Adam Cagliarni, First Assistant Secretary, Macroeconomic Conditions and Population Division
Ms Kerren Crosthwaite, First Assistant Secretary, Housing Division
Mr Brendan McKenna, A/g First Assistant Secretary, Labour Market, Environment, Infrastructure and Industry Division
Mr Nick Latimer, Assistant Secretary, Centre for Population
Henderson kicks off questions asking Home Affairs for data. Data provided was either for the wrong periods or taken on noticed.
Lodgements 32,124 July, 36,681, August
Grants 34,539 July 27814, August
Refusals 9,368 July, 6,572 August
Document tabled that will show against previous year.
She moves on to ask about PRISMS system and rumours that no development of new functionality has taken place to date. Home Affairs, which doesn’t manage PRISMS confirms Home Affairs changes are on track for a release prior to 1 January. Makes differentiation to Home Affairs systems, not PRISMS which is owned by Department of Ed.
Faruqui takes over.
National Planning was not included in the budget forecast. Currently going through the economic impact now. Faruqi was stunned that modelling had not been done. Treasury continues to look at the 270k national planning level and states this is consistent with what is currently in the budget figures, so there is no major impact against the budget.
Treasury states at a macro economic level there will be no impact on job losses from this bill. “That is outrageous” replies Faruqi. Henderson can be heard loudly agreeing with Faruqi.
Bilyk now on for questions. Asks about MD107 and to clarify how this may impact Go8s v regionals. Home Affairs does a good job of explaining how MD107 is applied and what it directs visa processing staff to do.
Senator Brockman asks about housing and its impact on the bill. Treasury says it broadly doesn’t do this work. Broadly, they would expect trends around vacancy rates, but no specific modelling has been done. Reinhart jumps in around the 4 per cent number (property council report) and states they believe that is an understatement.
The Koala’s observation from this session is that Departmental folks appeared much more engaged and provided more positive, in-depth responses than in previous sessions.
2.30 pm
Australian Skills Quality Authority (Submission 9)
Ms Saxon Rice, Chief Executive Officer
Ms Fiona O’Brien, Executive Director, Policy and Partnerships
Department of Education (Submission 51)
Mr Tony Cook PSM, Secretary
Mr Ben Rimmer, Deputy Secretary, Higher Education, Research and International Group
Ms Karen Sandercock, First Assistant Secretary, International Division
Ms Vanessa Lapthorne, Assistant Secretary, Engagement Branch
Dr Damian Oliver, Assistant Secretary, Partnerships
Ms Alexandra Procailo, Assistant Secretary, Quality Branch
Department of Employment and Workplace Relations (Submission 47)
Ms Anna Faithfull, Deputy Secretary, Skills and Training Group
Ms Laura Angus, First Assistant Secretary, Careers, International, Defence and Assessment Division
Mr Daniel Langer, A/g Assistant Secretary, International Policy and Defence Branch
Ms Katerina Lawler, Assistant Secretary, VET Quality and Regulation Branch
Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency (Submission 58)
Ms Adrienne Nieuwenhuis, A/g Chief Commissioner
Dr Mary Russell, Chief Executive Officer
No opening statements were made.
Senator Faruqi kicks off questions asking about the flaws in the methodology of caps allocations, she references Claire Field’s work.
Did you consult anyone on the formula? After a loose explanation and the question being re-asked, the answer was no.
Faruqi to dept of Ed.: are there any institutions that are of risk of breaking their cap already. Rimmer responds, yes, The Australian Catholic University. “Where they are at, at the moment put them at higher risk” he responded.
Asks how accommodation was inputted into the formula. It wasn’t for 2025, replied Rimmer. How it can be inputted is being worked on for 2026.
“If a provider has grown by thousands of students over a year it is hard to see how that is quality” says Rimmer. “That’s an assumption said Faruqi. The Koala agrees.
Bylik: “I’m a little bit confused” is perhaps the understatement of the day. She appeared to be more akin to the ball girl at a tee ball game, dishing up questions that could be hit for home runs rather than providing any interrogation whatsoever.
Henderson takes aim at Cook and the Department of Education, asking how you can take into account procedural fairness in providing cap numbers to cancelled providers but not provide procedural fairness to the providers facing catastrophic consequences in low caps now facing bankruptcy. Cook’s response is that these numbers are indicative of ongoing conversations.
She moves on to TEQSA and asks why TEQSA is writing letters to providers on financial viability when the legislation hasn’t yet passed. It was an awkward exchange with Russell appearing remotely and being able to see the letter Henerson was referring to.
Sheldon tees a question up for Saxon Rice at ASQA. Rice does well in articulating ASQA’s compliance initiatives; however, there must be a better way to present data regarding numbers. Confusion seems to ensue whenever ASQA numbers are discussed.
To finish, Henderson quote towards the end of the session perhaps underscores not only the day but the sentiment of the sector: “How can the government expect the parliament to pass this bill when so many of its provisions are under review?”
The Koala says “too right!”
4.00 pm Adjournment